If you were asked to create the Sequels

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I think Ep.7 could have been a good start, it’s what followed that.....you know.

That said rather than writing an entire script and leaving 7 as is I’ll just add some plot points.

Rey is Luke’s daughter, she was hidden away after Luke and family and new republic encounters the imperial remnant/first order and their new Emperor....

Snoke is actually Darth Plagius, he feigned death because he knew Palpatine was too powerful and he was waiting it out untill, as he had foreseen, Vader killed Palpatine....

Plagius seduced Ben Solo and convinced him to kill Luke’s wife, thus causing Luke to hide his daughter while he sought a way to stop his nephew and Plagius.....

Meanwhile the old crew ( Leia, Han, Ackbar, Wedge) assemble what little forces the New Republic has while they try and fight off the First order.

Ben/Kylo is as strong as Luke and Anakin thus a real threat this time, he kills Han still (cause you know, Harrison), Luke finds the 1st Jedi temple on TYTHON and learns many forgotten force techniques and philosophies ultimately becoming very Qui-Gon in his beliefs.......

Facing Ben/Kylo Luke defeats him barely only to be attacked by Plagius whom Luke learns has captured Rey, his daughter. The new crew, Poe and Finn, rescue her as Luke and Plagius duel and Luke goes full Obi-Wan allowing them to escape.....

Plagius treats Ben/Kylo much the same as in Ep.8 after Luke defeats him causing much animosity and confusion in him. Leia reaches him in the force trying to save him. Rey, who has been training this entire time finds her fathers notes and begins to study hard.....

Rey Skywalker, for real this time, feels ready but Leia warns her she may not be. Rey and the Resistance (Old rebels and the new cast) launch a final offensive against the First Order over the newly subjugated Coruscant. Rey rushes off to fight Kylo where he is impressed with his cousins power and calls for a truce telling her he’s conflicted and scared of what he’s become and wanting to kill Plagius together and convinced her neither of them is strong enough alone.....

Final show down, Plagius toys with both the cousins, his mastery and wisdom of the dark side giving him a large advantage. The Resistance is very successful against the FO as their numbers are few and only won the initial battles of this war due to surprise and lack of coordination on the new republics behalf, this is no longer the case. Plagius kills Kylo by forcing Rey’s saber, while in her hand, with the force through him. Leia feels this and is off. Rey, reminiscent of her father, snaps and begins an offensive against Plagius but it’s short lived, before he deals her the final blow...Leia’s saber ignites through his chest.

The day is won, the sith and empire/FO gone forever, ROTJ type ending, Luke’s ghost watching and smiling.

Time jump 5years.
Place Tython

Rey is doing her floating meditation thing on top of a hill. Finn is training in the distance with a handful of others. A small figure makes its way up the hill taking small steps untill it reaches the summit..Rey notices...

“Whom might you be and why have you sought us out?” Says Rey Skywalker.

“Jedi you are yes? Train me you will?” Says the small green alien. (Yes he’s who you think he is and he’s not a “child” anymore)

End.

It’s all out of order and just an over view but that’s what would have like to have seen.
 
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I think Ep.7 could have been a good start, it’s what followed that.....you know.

That said rather than writing an entire script and leaving 7 as is I’ll just add some plot points.

Rey is Luke’s daughter, she was hidden away after Luke and family and new republic encounters the imperial remnant/first order and their new Emperor....

Snoke is actually Darth Plagius, he feigned death because he knew Palpatine was too powerful and he was waiting it out untill, as he had foreseen, Vader killed Palpatine....

Plagius seduced Ben Solo and convinced him to kill Luke’s wife, thus causing Luke to hide his daughter while he sought a way to stop his nephew and Plagius.....

Meanwhile the old crew ( Leia, Han, Ackbar, Wedge) assemble what little forces the New Republic has while they try and fight off the First order.

Ben/Kylo is as strong as Luke and Anakin thus a real threat this time, he kills Han still (cause you know, Harrison), Luke finds the 1st Jedi temple on TYTHON and learns many forgotten force techniques and philosophies ultimately becoming very Qui-Gon in his beliefs.......

Facing Ben/Kylo Luke defeats him barely only to be attacked by Plagius whom Luke learns has captured Rey, his daughter. The new crew, Poe and Finn, rescue her as Luke and Plagius duel and Luke goes full Obi-Wan allowing them to escape.....

Plagius treats Ben/Kylo much the same as in Ep.8 after Luke defeats him causing much animosity and confusion in him. Leia reaches him in the force trying to save him. Rey, who has been training this entire time finds her fathers notes and begins to study hard.....

Rey Skywalker, for real this time, feels ready but Leia warns her she may not be. Rey and the Resistance (Old rebels and the new cast) launch a final offensive against the First Order over the newly subjugated Coruscant. Rey rushes off to fight Kylo where he is impressed with his cousins power and calls for a truce telling her he’s conflicted and scared of what he’s become and wanting to kill Plagius together and convinced her neither of them is strong enough alone.....

Final show down, Plagius toys with both the cousins, his mastery and wisdom of the dark side giving him a large advantage. The Resistance is very successful against the FO as their numbers are few and only won the initial battles of this war due to surprise and lack of coordination on the new republics behalf, this is no longer the case. Plagius kills Kylo by forcing Rey’s saber, while in her hand, with the force through him. Leia feels this and is off. Rey, reminiscent of her father, snaps and begins an offensive against Plagius but it’s short lived, before he deals her the final blow...Leia’s saber ignites through his chest.

The day is won, the sith and empire/FO gone forever, ROTJ type ending, Luke’s ghost watching and smiling.

Time jump 5years.
Place Tython

Rey is doing her floating meditation thing on top of a hill. Finn is training in the distance with a handful of others. A small figure makes its way up the hill taking small steps untill it reaches the summit..Rey notices...

“Whom might you be and why have you sought us out?” Says Rey Skywalker.

“Jedi you are yes? Train me you will?” Says the small green alien. (Yes he’s who you think he is and he’s not a “child” anymore)

End.

It’s all out of order and just an over view but that’s what would have like to have seen.
I disagree that the TFA we got was a good start and I don't know if the "what followed" is a put down of TLJ or both VIII and IX. I like that Johnson tried to do different but it was hampered by a lot of bad TFA choices.

Anyway what you set out in your post is far superior to what we got and although I don't like the First Order at all you would at lest have saved the trilogy and made it coherent.

In a way the that it became is now your fault fo not stepping in :unsure:
 

keknivek

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I feel the travesty of it all is that it happened to the core saga. If this were one of the one offs, or something totally unrelated to the OT and it was such a horrible mess, we could shake it of and hope for better next time. The sad fact of it is though, the ST has totally ruined the main saga's story IMO.

Perhaps that is what was needed in the beginning to get a grasp of what was really needed to do justice for the ending of Skywalker saga. If you screw up big on something no one cares about it's no great loss, but when you do that to such a beloved Franchise and character people are less forgiving.


Truthfully I don't know how anyone with an ounce of competence or respect for the OT ever thought this was a good idea in the fist place.
 

TKMaster

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I disagree that the TFA we got was a good start and I don't know if the "what followed" is a put down of TLJ or both VIII and IX. I like that Johnson tried to do different but it was hampered by a lot of bad TFA choices.

Anyway what you set out in your post is far superior to what we got and although I don't like the First Order at all you would at lest have saved the trilogy and made it coherent.

In a way the that it became is now your fault fo not stepping in :unsure:
I feel if the FO was explained as the Imperial Remnant (which it really was) and Snoke/Plagius just changed the name it would have eased into the role better. But let’s be honest sooooo many things would have been easier to swallow if they had just had a damn explanation behind them.
 

Caas_Sandhri

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The one question Disney obviously never asked: What is the reason in the mythology of Star Wars that makes a sequel necessary?

The truth is, after Episode 6, the story is told, as far as the simply myth goes. Evil has been vanquished. The Jedi are about to return. The rogue got the girl. The Sith are exterminated. Anakin Skywalker is redeemed. The prophecy is fulfilled. The galaxy celebrates. It's over. And like every self-respecting fairy-tale it should have reached the point where to say "...and they lived happily ever after".

Because that's the structure of the myth Star Wars was telling. The OT is a fairy tale. That's what makes it so accessible for everyone, kids and adults alike. It has the mythical simplicity of good and evil; it has the heroes and the teachers; it has the rise, fall, and triumph of the protagonist. But that is also its limitation: it is ending.

The PT is slightly more grownup in theme, sketching the fall of the Republic and the fall of Anakin. But still, the PT and the Clone Wars must ultimately lead to the OT, and as such all these tales (as well as a hypothetical Dark Times) will be part of one major arc that ends in ROTJ.

Ends. That's the crux.

Continuing that tale is a problem the EU was tackling very early. The heroes were still alive so they could theoretically have more adventures, but what's an adventure supposed to mean when evil itself has been defeated already? Topping it with just "more evil" seems a lot like pointless repetition. And the EU relied for a long time on two different solutions:
  • either the enemy was a rather mundane new threat, starting with the Nagai and the Tof, the Black Fleet, the Kilik, or even the Yuuzhan Vong,
  • or the enemy was some relic of the Empire: Thrawn, Daala, any of the many warlords and wannabe Emperors. And later a resurrection of the Sith for the late books and Legacy comics, which made for graphically great villains but overall felt like a throwback.
The notable exceptions were (1) the resurrection of the Emperor himself in Dark Empire - a baddie that even the EU (as rich in weaknesses as it is) saw as one-time option. Moreover, after the PT created the "rule of two" and the prophecy of the Chosen One, the end of the Emperor in ROTJ became a necessity that the audience well understands (see the comments to the same resurrection in TROS).
And (2) the introduction of Abeloth in the last segment of the "Luke era" books at the end of the old EU, which introduced something that might have been a personification of the Dark Side.

These two were the instances in the old EU where I felt an attempt to define the limits and rules of the Force - to get beyond the black and white that gave us multiple incarnations of "person falls to the dark side and needs to be converted or destroyed". But ultimately the EU wasn't allowed to set the parameters the Force works by (it's the EU after all). And the movies didn't need to because the tale of the movies had ended.

That was the point where Disney failed with the ST as well. They repeated the Empire. They repeated the Sith (no-I-am-totally-not-a-Sith Snoke who was suspected of being no-one-writes-my-name-correctly Plagueis). They repeated the fallen hero. And en passant they destroyed the lived happily ever after of the heroes.
What they didn't do is giving us an answer to the question: Why is there still evil? Why does the Dark Side prevail? Could Anakin have failed after all? Why is all that happening, and is it just going to happen forever again, in a loop that would just re-write Star Wars?
In the end, they even resurrected the Emperor, because they needed to justify the ST: the ST continues the OT because the Emperor is not really dead, and then he is, and we get the real end, and it was all totally part of the same story arc (except that it all feels tacked on and artificial, which it is).

The mythological purity good vs evil couldn't carry the franchise any further. That is where the old EU failed; it gave us sequel stories but no valid need for them; it tried to capture the spirit of the OT but the OT was finished; it needed to perform surgery at the very core of the worldbuilding but couldn't and wasn't allowed to. That is where Disney failed too; but other than the old EU, they would have been allowed to redefine what Star Wars meant, but they didn't dare to.

Ironically, Rian Johnson started to ask the right questions (ironically, because I still deem The Last Jedi the worst SW movie ever...). In TLJ, Luke doubts the wisdom of the old Jedi; he knows of Sidious and his deceptions; he journeys to (one of) the first Jedi temple(s), where we see mosaics on the ground showing yin/yang patterns; then he teaches Rey about the circle of life (or rather, of light side growth and dark side destruction).

The audience glimpses a deeper understanding of the Force and a change in what Star Wars means when the Sith are gone; a new relationship between light and dark. (But the movie destroys these approaches by never going through with them, by claiming Luke comes to Ahch-To to die instead of learn, by reverting Yoda's spirit into a cackling gnome...)

And that is what Star Wars would have needed: the dissolution of the boundaries of pure good and pure evil. To leave the simple myth behind, the fable, the fairy tale - because the fairy tale has been told to the very end. Star Wars needed to grow up and develop beyond the PT/OT cycle.

Failing to do so, Disney reverts to the good old times: None of the series, rumored or planned, continues the tale into the future. Cassian Andor, Obi-Wan, Maul, Lando, Solo, High Republic, even the Mandalorian is set so close to the OT that it can be seen as part of it (also, Mando has no Jedi so far). They can preserve the myth by stepping back into the past. Of course, they can also not contribute anything new to it. We all know how it plays out.

The path into the future is still waiting. Makes me curious what the next SW movies will actually be about.
 
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Jaxxon

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I feel if the FO was explained as the Imperial Remnant (which it really was) and Snoke/Plagius just changed the name it would have eased into the role better. But let’s be honest sooooo many things would have been easier to swallow if they had just had a damn explanation behind them.
I was not swallowing any of it .... :cautious:
 

Jaxxon

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The one question Disney obviously never asked: What is the reason in the mythology of Star Wars that makes a sequel necessary?

The truth is, after Episode 6, the story is told, as far as the simply myth goes. Evil has been vanquished. The Jedi are about to return. The rogue got the girl. The Sith are exterminated. Anakin Skywalker is redeemed. The prophecy is fulfilled. The galaxy celebrates. It's over. And like every self-respecting fairy-tale it should have reached the point where to say "...and they lived happily ever after".

Because that's the structure of the myth Star Wars was telling. The OT is a fairy tale. That's what makes it so accessible for everyone, kids and adults alike. It has the mythical simplicity of good and evil; it has the heroes and the teachers; it has the rise, fall, and triumph of the protagonist. But that is also its limitation: it is ending.

The PT is slightly more grownup in theme, sketching the fall of the Republic and the fall of Anakin. But still, the PT and the Clone Wars must ultimately lead to the OT, and as such all these tales (as well as a hypothetical Dark Times) will be part of one major arc that ends in ROTJ.

Ends. That's the crux.

Continuing that tale is a problem the EU was tackling very early. The heroes were still alive so they could theoretically have more adventures, but what's an adventure supposed to mean when evil itself has been defeated already? Topping it with just "more evil" seems a lot like pointless repetition. And the EU relied for a long time on two different solutions:
  • either the enemy was a rather mundane new threat, starting with the Nagai and the Tof, the Black Fleet, the Kilik, or even the Yuuzhan Vong,
  • or the enemy was some relic of the Empire: Thrawn, Daala, any of the many warlords and wannabe Emperors. And later a resurrection of the Sith for the late books and Legacy comics, which made for graphically great villains but overall felt like a throwback.
The notable exceptions were (1) the resurrection of the Emperor himself in Dark Empire - a baddie that even the EU (as rich in weaknesses as it is) saw as one-time option. Moreover, after the PT created the "rule of two" and the prophecy of the Chosen One, the end of the Emperor in ROTJ became a necessity that the audience well understands (see the comments to the same resurrection in TROS).
And (2) the introduction of Abeloth in the last segment of the "Luke era" books at the end of the old EU, which introduced something that might have been a personification of the Dark Side.

These two were the instances in the old EU where I felt an attempt to define the limits and rules of the Force - to get beyond the black and white that gave us multiple incarnations of "person falls to the dark side and needs to be converted or destroyed". But ultimately the EU wasn't allowed to set the parameters the Force works by (it's the EU after all). And the movies didn't need to because the tale of the movies had ended.

That was the point where Disney failed with the ST as well. They repeated the Empire. They repeated the Sith (no-I-am-totally-not-a-Sith Snoke who was suspected of being no-one-writes-my-name-correctly Plagueis). They repeated the fallen hero. And en passant they destroyed the lived happily ever after of the heroes.
What they didn't do is giving us an answer to the question: Why is there still evil? Why does the Dark Side prevail? Could Anakin have failed after all? Why is all that happening, and is it just going to happen forever again, in a loop that would just re-write Star Wars?
In the end, they even resurrected the Emperor, because they needed to justify the ST: the ST continues the OT because the Emperor is not really dead, and then he is, and we get the real end, and it was all totally part of the same story arc (except that it all feels tacked on and artificial, which it is).

The mythological purity good vs evil couldn't carry the franchise any further. That is where the old EU failed; it gave us sequel stories but no valid need for them; it tried to capture the spirit of the OT but the OT was finished; it needed to perform surgery at the very core of the worldbuilding but couldn't and wasn't allowed to. That is where Disney failed too; but other than the old EU, they would have been allowed to redefine what Star Wars meant, but they didn't dare to.

Ironically, Rian Johnson started to ask the right questions (ironically, because I still deem The Last Jedi the worst SW movie ever...). In TLJ, Luke doubts the wisdom of the old Jedi; he knows of Sidious and his deceptions; he journeys to (one of) the first Jedi temple(s), where we see mosaics on the ground showing yin/yang patterns; then he teaches Rey about the circle of life (or rather, of light side growth and dark side destruction).

The audience glimpses a deeper understanding of the Force and a change in what Star Wars means when the Sith are gone; a new relationship between light and dark. (But the movie destroys these approaches by never going through with them, by claiming Luke comes to Ahch-To to die instead of learn, by reverting Yoda's spirit into a cackling gnome...)

And that is what Star Wars would have needed: the dissolution of the boundaries of pure good and pure evil. To leave the simple myth behind, the fable, the fairy tale - because the fairy tale has been told to the very end. Star Wars needed to grow up and develop beyond the PT/OT cycle.

Failing to do so, Disney reverts to the good old times: None of the series, rumored or planned, continues the tale into the future. Cassian Andor, Obi-Wan, Maul, Lando, Solo, High Republic, even the Mandalorian is set so close to the OT that it can be seen as part of it (also, Mando has no Jedi so far). They can preserve the myth by stepping back into the past. Of course, they can also not contribute anything new to it. We all know how it plays out.

The path into the future is still waiting. Makes me curious what the next SW movies will actually be about.
Disney paid $4 billion dollars for the franchise. They are entitled to get a Sequel Trilogy.

You have very eloquently talked yourself out of a dream job.

Stop complaining and write a cool Return of Luke Skywalker story.
 
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Caas_Sandhri

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Disney paid $4 billion dollars for the franchise. They are entitled to get a Sequel Trilogy.
They got their Sequel Trilogy. Which pretty much showed us how far "being entitled" gets you.

You have very eloquently talked yourself out of a dream job.
No one ever offered me that job. Oh, if they did, I would take it instead of complaining. But with all the studio meddling, I doubt I would actually enjoy it. The praxis of writing for movies is much different from writing a book.

Stop complaining and write a cool Return of Luke Skywalker story.
I actually once though I should start writing an alternative ST (one idea with deliberately similar premises and motives as TFA, but an actual story arc that led somewhere; the other idea completely different, concentrating on Luke and his Jedi school). But I soon learned that there are dozens of fan-written alternative STs out there, each with just a few dozen readers. The interest in yet another vanity project is rather small.

So, if I want to write, I suppose my time is better spent on an original story of my own. (Also, less copyright trouble :whistle:)

If you're really interested, I can offer a chapter or two of either Star Wars idea; otherwise, I'm back to complaining (spending too much time on that as well... I know...).
 

TauntaunScout

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It is hard to fairly judge the sequels because it's really hard to find a big budget movie that is as bad as the prequels. Hence the sequels were simultaneously an improvement and a disappointment.
Well new Star Trek is pretty darn close second. IMO

Don't rehash Star Wars movies. Go watch 100+ films from pre-1977 and take notes on stuff that deserves an homage.
Agreed.

Don't make a film version of the old EU. There's a reason they aren't still a raging teen sensation like Billy Ocean or The Bangles.
The difference here is that the EU was killed off, while Billy Ocean and the Bangles simply faded out of popularity. Plus I can still listen to their music 20 years later, while I can't stomach the ST more than 2-3 viewings.
 

TauntaunScout

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Plus I can still listen to their music 20 years later, while I can't stomach the ST more than 2-3 viewings.
I couldn't stomach the EU novels and comics the first time around. I think their initial success was indicative of pent up consumer demand for more SW stuff than of their actual quality. As opposed to say, the enduring appeal of international heartthrob Christopher Walken. He's so dreamy!
 

Jaxxon

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They got their Sequel Trilogy. Which pretty much showed us how far "being entitled" gets you.
You are missing the point of the thread.


No one ever offered me that job. Oh, if they did, I would take it instead of complaining. But with all the studio meddling, I doubt I would actually enjoy it. The praxis of writing for movies is much different from writing a book.
I've offered you (and every one) the job. Still missing the point of the thread.


I actually once though I should start writing an alternative ST (one idea with deliberately similar premises and motives as TFA, but an actual story arc that led somewhere; the other idea completely different, concentrating on Luke and his Jedi school). But I soon learned that there are dozens of fan-written alternative STs out there, each with just a few dozen readers. The interest in yet another vanity project is rather small.
That is the point of the thread - I want the "vanity project".

So, if I want to write, I suppose my time is better spent on an original story of my own. (Also, less copyright trouble :whistle:)

If you're really interested, I can offer a chapter or two of either Star Wars idea; otherwise, I'm back to complaining (spending too much time on that as well... I know...).
There is no copyright issue here - I and Disney and Lucasfilm in this thread. Flpping heck, yes I am interested. Give me the stories.
 

Jaxxon

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It is hard to fairly judge the sequels because it's really hard to find a big budget movie that is as bad as the prequels. Hence the sequels were simultaneously an improvement and a disappointment.

The sequels needed to be about Luke Skywalker in his 50's or 60's. Since Harrison Ford wasn't interested beyond the opportunity to kill off Han (not that any deaths can stick in SW now) let Han die BETWEEN the films and don't go into any details about it. Thus utilizing the trademark Star Wars mystique. Next up, diversity and newer younger characters. Give all of Han's screentime to Lando and a new character. Make that new character a woman and/or person of color. DO NOT flood the franchise with several new characters, this is not an ensemble cast television show. Billy Dee Williams is getting older, he can't be an action hero but he can do plenty.

Pick a story. Pick some recurring themes. It's not quite true that there are only seven stories but it is good enough for this stage of the discussion. Pick one of these:
Overcoming the Monster
Rags to Riches
The Quest
Voyage and Return
Comedy
Tragedy
Rebirth

Don't rehash Star Wars movies. Go watch 100+ films from pre-1977 and take notes on stuff that deserves an homage.
Don't make Episode 7 a cliffhanger.
Don't make a film version of the old EU. There's a reason they aren't still a raging teen sensation like Billy Ocean or The Bangles.

Bluntly, they needed to follow the acronym Keep It Simple, Stupid. But I am too harsh. Maybe they tried to do K.I.S.S. and accidentally dropped the first "S".
It is not hard to judge the Sequels. They ate bad.

Purpose of this thread is not to complain - you can do that everywhere else.

I asked for people to give the their Sequel ideas.

Jesus guys, is it that hard to stop moaning and get creative?
 
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Masterfett

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What's the point in being so creative though, it's just pie in the sky when we have to go back to reality and see what a crap-fest it really is.

The more we discuss how great it would be this happened or that happened or if they wen this way instead of that way etc. The end result is still the same and makes the actual movies that more depressing, for some.

And no matter how many good ideas might be brought up here, Disney will continue whatever it is they want to do. So I think at this point it's best just to accept what it is that they're offering or simply move on to something that you feel done better.
It is supposed to be a bit of fun.

Do you know what fun is?

Pie in the sky is still pie and pie is good.
 

Jaxxon

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Oh I am just getting started. Discussing/Coming up with some parameters and then I will go from there.
The parameters are new and original you have the OT heroes with the Empire/Remnant gone. The villains have to be new.

And no complaining or negativity or I will fire you. :p.
 

Masterfett

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Okay then, in all honesty i wouldn't be trying to create the sequels because the time for those passed about 20 years ago. I would have rather seen something take place in the Old Republic era, or set it 100 years after ROTJ. I also would have liked to see an origin story that delved into the mythos of the Force and perhaps one person's journey rather than an Galactic Threat once again, that's all we ever see anymore it seems.

They could also have explored how the Sith came about, was it a simple branching off of ideals, betrayal, or which one came first? I'm not much into writing stories because it then takes out most of the fun/excitement of reading/experiencing it.
Those are all for a different thread. I'm just interested in what people wanted from a Luke sequel or what they now wish it had done.

The idea to bring back the original heroes made sound business sense.
 

CellBlock1138

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Okay then, in all honesty i wouldn't be trying to create the sequels because the time for those passed about 20 years ago. I would have rather seen something take place in the Old Republic era, or set it 100 years after ROTJ. I also would have liked to see an origin story that delved into the mythos of the Force and perhaps one person's journey rather than an Galactic Threat once again, that's all we ever see anymore it seems.
Sequels are fine and it wasn't too late, although 20 years ago would have been better all right. The problem begins, however, when Disney are more interested in pushing their characters over the characters that everyone else was there to see, who were Han, Luke and Leia, who all got sidelined or clumsily killed off to prop up completely insipid replacements.

Instead of sitting through that schitshow, it absolutely would have been much better to set these sequels as far away from the original trilogy as possible, to limit the damage they were going to do.
 

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I don't think they actually thought anything out though MF. They probably just went with things and anyone with issues just shut up. Before they knew it, they were knee deep in a wretched story that was going nowhere and was populated by terrible characters, who's existence relied on taking a giant dump on the OT ones.

A acquaintance of mine works in movie animation, he worked originally in England and then went to the States to work in companies there. He once told me that those kind of companies (in America) absolutely do not entertain any kind of dissent or critique from employees. The upper echelons have all the say and not only do you have to do as you're told you also have to be all "go team" and all that bullschit.

The net affect/effect can be a poor output, because everyone is doing a fake happy clappy dance for a rubbish product and nobody is smoke testing any of their ideas to see if they won't work in the long term (or even short term in some cases).

I have no doubt in my mind that that is how a mega corporation like Disney operates too. I cannot imagine anybody sticking their hand in the air at a meeting and saying "does ANYONE else here think that Rey is a crap character?" or "Is Luke Skywalker ACTUALLY going to die because he used too much Force?" or "Are you REALLY thinking of bringing the Emperor back?"

...ad nauseam.

I would say that that is a major reason why movies today are, largely, unsatisfying products that often leave a lot to be desired, because I cannot believe that there wasn't anyone at Disney that didn't have some severe problems with where everything was going. But they just kept shtum for fear of sanction by an army of "producers" in fancy suits.
 

Jaxxon

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Sequels are fine and it wasn't too late, although 20 years ago would have been better all right. The problem begins, however, when Disney are more interested in pushing their characters over the characters that everyone else was there to see, who were Han, Luke and Leia, who all got sidelined or clumsily killed off to prop up completely insipid replacements.

Instead of sitting through that schitshow, it absolutely would have been much better to set these sequels as far away from the original trilogy as possible, to limit the damage they were going to do.
That's exactly my point because I knew where Disney was going to go considering the era we were in.

What i don't understand is how they thought everyone would be okay with them crapping on the OT, all that would do is cause resentment toward the characters the were trying to promote at the expense of "our" Heroes.
I don't think they actually thought anything out though MF. They probably just went with things and anyone with issues just shut up. Before they knew it, they were knee deep in a wretched story that was going nowhere and was populated by terrible characters, who's existence relied on taking a giant dump on the OT ones.

A acquaintance of mine works in movie animation, he worked originally in England and then went to the States to work in companies there. He once told me that those kind of companies (in America) absolutely do not entertain any kind of dissent or critique from employees. The upper echelons have all the say and not only do you have to do as you're told you also have to be all "go team" and all that bullschit.

The net affect/effect can be a poor output, because everyone is doing a fake happy clappy dance for a rubbish product and nobody is smoke testing any of their ideas to see if they won't work in the long term (or even short term in some cases).

I have no doubt in my mind that that is how a mega corporation like Disney operates too. I cannot imagine anybody sticking their hand in the air at a meeting and saying "does ANYONE else here think that Rey is a crap character?" or "Is Luke Skywalker ACTUALLY going to die because he used too much Force?" or "Are you REALLY thinking of bringing the Emperor back?"

...ad nauseam.

I would say that that is a major reason why movies today are, largely, unsatisfying products that often leave a lot to be desired, because I cannot believe that there wasn't anyone at Disney that didn't have some severe problems with where everything was going. But they just kept shtum for fear of sanction by an army of "producers" in fancy suits.
Off topic.

There are plenty of threads to discuss how bad the Sequels are, etc.

The point of this thread is fun and what could have been.
 

Caas_Sandhri

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Okay, let's get back on track, if Jaxxon wants fanfiction, he shall have fanfiction...

My preferred "new movies" would have started many years ago, back in the 90's or even end of the 80's. Let's say 1988, 91, 94 for the first trilogy so the actors would have been still close to their Endor age, and we wouldn't have a jump of 30 years into the future.

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That first trilogy could have been along the same lines as "Heir to the Empire" and parts of the X-Wing series: After the death of the Emperor, the military of the Empire slowly crumbles but is too strong to fall apart immediately. Local governors become warlords; the rebellion fights battles on multiple fronts. Luke is looking for the true history of the Jedi (not tainted by the lies of the Emperor) and for possible pupils. Leia tries to keep the rebellion together and to form a true government out of the willing systems, but there is no full unity as rebel supporters want to reap the rewards, and too many different visions of the future float around.

Characters:

The big baddie in that time may very well be someone like Thrawn. I liked the original character... so let's ignore the Disney Thrawn and state he's just a loyal Imperial who tries to re-establish (or save...) the Empire.

I'm also very much in favor of Mara Jade as a character. She'll be the love interest for Luke and allows us to get some Skywalker kids in the future.

These two characters alone would carry much of the villain side, and they would be vastly different from Vader and the Emperor, which I feel is necessary because we keep many of the superficial trappings and visuals for this trilogy.

The trilogy would allow us to move the story focus away from the good/evil fairy tale. We have Thrawn who honestly wants to rebuild an Empire he sees the good sides of - he's an authoritarian, but not of the cartoony evil sort. Between him and Mara Jade, we have two villains that could be determined but conflicted and not just "bad".

I'm not sure about Jorus C'baoth (not the clone) - a mad Jedi guarding the Emperor's personal trove of weapons is a pretty good foil, but would three bad guys (gals) not be too much for the limited scope of three movies? I'd definitely drop the Luke clone and probably the Ysalamiri. On the other hand I would like to introduce some "lost almost-Jedi" hidden away in the Outer Rim to start Luke's Jedi school.

There would be a number of side characters, esp. in Han's and Lando's old smuggler acquaintances.

Wedge could get a bit more of a role as Rogue Squadron leader. Some of the rebel leadership (well, Ackbar and Mon Mothma) would appear in the "political" scenes.

The spirits of Yoda/Ben may still be around to discuss with Luke.

Settings:

No new uniforms or Imperial ships, no new X-Wings. We may see a few modifications to the rebel snubfighters, and perhaps a new class of capital ship, and of course Star Destroyers under rebel control. No Uglies please, they make absolutely no sense.

Thrawn's fleet would look sparkly clean and well-kept, but the warlords and local governors would be less well off. Their SDs and other ships are in a bad shape, have new paint jobs, modifications; some may be kept together with duct tape.

The Rebels are somewhere in between. Han's of course working on the Falcon.

We get to see Coruscant for the first time (in this hypothetical chronology, the prequels don't exist yet and the special editions haven't been done).

Tatooine would - if at all - only appear in a short scene where Luke visits Obi-Wan's hovel, and maybe the ruins of the Lars farm. I'm on the edge whether this is really necessary. On the one side, it would provide some continuity as all the other locations would be new - but really, Tatooine again?

All other worlds we will see are new. The emphasis is on tech - orbital factories, production centers, civilization. The audience needs to see that the rebels are now in control of the core systems (contrasting the OT where most of the main locations are far-off, barely habitable worlds). Also, these worlds make a better target for Thrawn.

Story beats:

Not going to retell "Heir to the Empire" here ;-). Thrawn tries to hit the rebel bases and wrest control from the fledgling New Republic, using his superior tactical skills. Attempting to take the Emperor's hidden weapon stash, he meets Jorus and tries to use him as a weapon against Luke. Mara hunts for Luke, fulfilling the last command of the Emperor. Luke gets to look for Jedi remains, talks to Yoda about the "last Jedi" thing and the philosophy of the Jedi. Han, Chewie (no Holiday Special family for him, sorry) and Lando reconnect to the lighter side of the underworld; good opportunity for multifaceted characters and aliens. Leia does political things, but not too much of these.

Would the Solo twins (Jacen and Jaina, not Ben) be born already? Not sure about that; on the one hand it's an opportunity to foreshadow the next trilogy, on the other hand it might bog down the flow of the action.

This trilogy needs some changes throughout though. Without the Noghri, Thrawn's end must be rewritten, but I like that he falls prey to some old fault of the Empire - not seeing a flaw of the system he works for. Mara Jade of course turns good. Jorus C'baoth does not need to die, but will he play a role in forthcoming movies? Luke finding "other Jedi" would happen very late in the game.

An interesting factor would be whether Ahsoka and Ezra play any role at all, or whether we even want those characters to factor in. In the real world, neither would have been created yet. In the Disneyverse though, both survived until after Endor (and Ezra is connected to Thrawn), so if we want them to exist, how would we acknowledge their likely meeting with Luke? These two are a huge baggage!

At that time, I would not include them at all; once they are going to be created (OMG these hypothetical universes) they would need to die. I suppose Ahsoka would have died in the duel with Vader in Rebels. Ezra might not have the Thrawn connection and just got lost somewhere, or died as well - we can afford to kill future characters ;-)

Outcome:

At the end of this trilogy, of course Thrawn is dead, Mara is good, Jorus is... whatever, don't care. The OT heroes are still alive - it's worth consideration whether they should die onscreen or get a "lived happily ever after" ending (perhaps we kill Wedge to show the stakes are high; I'm such a sadist). Luke founds his Jedi school after he now has support and knowledge. The New Republic is officially founded. An era of peace begins!

-----

Once this trilogy is done, the Prequels can happen just as they did. 1999, 2002, 2005 will be prequeltime; with all new actors, many new characters, and hooks for future series and spin-offs. I would rewrite part of that too, and drop the Midichlorians and the Prophecy... but let's not go there now.

-----

In 2010, the focus would return to Luke and the other OT characters in the Second ST Trilogy. (I calculate breaks between the trilogies as a five-year breathing space... 1983-1988, 1994-1999, 2005-2010...) We skip the "time of peace" and the whole kid raising as not so relevant... books, comics, and kid's series can fill the gap just fine.

Let's pretend that the time in the GFFA does not mirror real-world time, and 15 years have passed since Thrawn (that trilogy would take 6 RL years anyway while happening in the course of a year or two in GFFA time). If you prefer, this trilogy could be done without the Thrawn trilogy but there is some foreshadowing and setups in that one so it's better to have it.

Han's and Leia's kids are now young adults (okay so they have been born already before the Thrawn trilogy, forget what I said above...), and Luke has a daughter of 14 years, whose name is... aaaah... how about Rey? (Independent of the Disney diversity politics, I like the idea of having more female heroes / Jedi here.)

Speaking about names... so in the books, the OT heroes reuse the names Anakin and Ben for their kids. I'm not a fan of that idea. In my take, I think Luke would lose a lot of his admiration for his short-time surrogate daddy when he hears how much crock he was feeding him, and the events in the Thrawn trilogy would at first estrange him somewhat from Ben and Yoda. (I don't see that Anakin would do a lot of talking to him as a spirit...) In the end, Luke would make peace with them and their view of things, but naming his kid after Ben (and Han/Leia naming a kid after Darth effing Vader) is something I would not do. So, Rey is fine with me.

Rey turned out to be a very adept and enthusiastic Jedi (though not a Mary Sue) at the Jedi school on Ossus (everyone else wants it to be on Yavin, but I disagree), while neither Jacen nor Jaina have shown any affinity to the Force. Jacen is a top pilot and Jaina a mechanic, and Han is very happy about that (Leia would probably want one of them to follow her politician footsteps, but that's not happening).

One day, Han, Leia, Jacen and Jaina come to visit Ossus; Jacen has strange dreams and finally seems to find an access to the Force. But these dreams are dark and troubling and reek of the Dark Side. Luke decides that it's time to spill the beans, and calls the kids to assembly. He tells them the best kept secret of the Jedi: that Anakin Skywalker did not die at the end of the Clone Wars, defending the Jedi Temple - but instead became Darth Vader.

(I assume that neither Luke nor Leia would want to tell the galaxy about their dad... and that Palpatine (NOT Sheev, dammit) would have erased any trace of Vader's identity.)

The kids are shocked, and Jacen begins to suspect that he's destined to follow Vader's footsteps. Luke begins to doubt the Jedi ways - if the Dark Side keeps manifesting, is there even a way to defeat evil once and for all?

But what's worst is - the Jedi don't suspect it, but they're spied upon. Two politician twins, the Barons of... (too lazy to think of a name here, invent one)... are set upon exposing the Jedi as fraud, for their own political gain. Now, they know that Luke and Leia, the kids of heroic Anakin Skywalker, are actually the offspring of the most evil man in the galaxy. They don't hesitate to spread the news, and when Han and Leia are back on Coruscant, Leia is ousted from her office as Head of State / Chancellor violently, and one of the Baron Twins sics bounty hunters on her. Han and Leia have to flee, and Han must reactivate his smuggler contacts once again to find safe harbor.

In the meantime, Luke has discussed things with Yoda, and decided (much against Yoda's will) to find out more about the Dark Side and the Sith. He, Jacen, Jaina, Rey, and perhaps one or two others embark on a journey to the Sith worlds to look for forbidden knowledge.

During the following adventures, the kids' characters grow, and the audience can follow their development - Jaina will never become a Jedi, Rey finds her limitations, Jacen teeters on the verge of the Dark Side. They meet the Prophets of the Dark Side (haha), an old order of Sith followers who are not Sith themselves, and are confronted by one of the Baron Twins who finds his destiny in becoming a Dark Side user himself. At the end, in a big confrontation on the Sith burial world of Korriban / Moraband, Jacen can't stand the pressure, flees from his group, and in the end picks up a red lightsaber from some Sith grave. Cliffhanger!

The point in this second trilogy should be to give us a better knowledge of what the Force is / can do / wills us to do, so it's delving into mysticism and Force lore (where the OT was a fairy tale, and the first ST focuses on tech and space battles). In the end, Jacen will not fall to the Dark Side (we get to save him before that happens) and the Baron Twins will be the big bads.

At the end of the third movie, the New Republic will fall to their own internal strife; the one person who might have been able to unify the worlds again is no longer available/trustworthy/alive. Yeah, I'm actually thinking of killing Leia here. The political angle is done; her role over. Her death (must be a big sacrificial gesture naturally) might be actually the one thing that keeps a new Galactic War from happening.

Not sure how to play the whole situation out. Requires some more work, esp. in the 2nd and 3rd movie. Ultimately, Luke will learn that there are many layers to the Force, and that the Dark Side cannot be beaten - in fact, the Jedi must stop shunning the Dark Side and learn about it in order to overcome it. Denying the dark easily makes even an upright Jedi a victim to its lure. This knowledge will cause Yoda's spirit to disappear and a conflict arise between the "Jedi of old" and Luke's younger pupils.

These films would be shown in 2010, 2013, and 2016.

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The last / Third ST trilogy would then follow in 2021, 2024, 2027. Here, we look upon a transformed galaxy: no longer a unified Republic or Empire, split into a thousand factions with the New Republic being only one of them. Unrest, little wars, and piracy determine the star systems.

I actually have no elaborate story for these films, but Han and Luke are going to die here, ending the whole era and suggesting a time jump of centuries before the next movies.

One of the things I actually liked about the Disney ST was the way they handled Han's death. It was not a big shootout, or flying the Falcon into some Star Destroyer, but a far more personal quest that kills him - and, trying to save his son, it's also very heroic. -- In my take, I can't save this moment unfortunately, since Jacen was already a potential bad guy in the previous trilogy, and he or a hypothetical brother would just repeat a similar story. I guess the basic story setup of the Disney ST cannot be used here (nor the story arc, for virtue of being nonexistant).

For Luke's final death, I imagine that he's going to save a number of Dark Side users from the thrall of their master and turn them back to the light. Maybe he's using an artifact that multiplies his power but requires his life energy. Heh, maybe he should become a large purple Force dragon of light (that was a rumor for Yoda's rebirth in 1981 or 82 that a large German movie magazine printed as spoiler...). No, I guess that's too over the top...

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With 9 movies and who-knows-how-many series and spinoffs in the meantime, SW would need a rejuvenation... I have no clue where the franchise would go. I suppose if the core movies are strong enough, the spinoffs would pull through much better; the Han Solo movies could have been a proper trilogy to be released in the "gap" years; perhaps the franchise would turn into a series of series for streaming anyway... maybe we'll get a true reboot in serial form...

...who knows, who knows, who knows...
 
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